Hot Seat: Lincoln Wrong to Fight Civil War?

It's amazing how few people know that secession was taught as being Constitutional AT WEST POINT, for TWO DECADES prior to the WBTS. This doesn't speak very well for the public government schools, does it!

Hidden Truth Ministries said
"We formed it together, we built it together, and we have no problem dying to keep it together."

All I can say is, in your case, the sooner the better, Adolph.

dph - Resident of Illinois (Land of Lincoln)

Steve11:42AMJan 3rd 2008

"If you have a deeper understanding of history you will know that Dr. Ron Paul is correct in what he says. Slavery was eliminated in virtually every country in the world by peaceful means except in the U.S. "Why is that?" is what you should be asking yourselves. Do your homework and find why this was the case. Don't parrot the PC version of history you know so well. You will be surprised with your findings, I guarantee that."

Steve, if you had a deeper understanding of history you would understand how silly you sound.

The reason the other nations did not have to fight a Civil War to eliminate slavery, is because they did not have a bunch of seditionist states that declared their perpetual right to continue slavery within their document of sedition.

Had they have had idiots willing to commit this folly, they also would have had to go to war. Lincoln did not go to war over Slavery! He went to war over the act of sedition. Virtually every Nation has gone to war over the act of sedition!!!!!!

amanda12:50PMJan 3rd 2008

"I'm voting for Ron Paul simply because hes not a politician he is an American. I am an American. If you support rights you will vote for Ron Paul. If you dont vote for Ron Paul then YOUR the nut. You obviously dont know what America used to stand for before things became "politicaly corect." If you want to be "politicaly corect" leave America because this is a free country not communist."

What kind of a crock are you spewing? Ron Paul is most definately a politician, just like all the other politician's. He has held political office for a good many years!

Wake up! Supporting minority rights over and above the will of the majority is exactly the method os the socialistic Marxist revolution.

Hitler used this method and the labor unions to get the ignorant people to empower him to take over his country and turn it into a dictatorship.

The Bolshevic revolution used this same form of reasoning to get the ignorant people of Russia to support them to gain power to turn Russia into a dictatorship.

Anytime you hold individual freedom over and above the will of majority rule that this nation was established on, then you are merely being a puppet to the Marxist revolution.

Ron Paul is overly eager to empower the will of the minority over and above the will of the majority. That is Communism!!!!

James:
I happen to agree that Robert E. Lee was a very eloquent, very sincere person who reflects very well on the South. Unfortunately, many neo-confederates don't reflect HIM at all!

I posted the entire Sherman quote; it was not simply "War is hell." Here it is again: "I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation. War is hell."
William Tecumseh Sherman
Personally, I find his sentiments very eloquent.

Here are a few of my favorite Lee quotes: "The gentleman does not needlessly and unnecessarily remind an offender of a wrong he may have committed against him. He can not only forgive; he can forget; and he strives for that nobleness of self and mildness of character which imparts sufficient strength to let the past be put the past."
"So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained."
"We have fought this fight as long, and as well as we know how. We have been defeated. For us as a Christian people, there is now but one course to pursue. We must accept the situation."
Robert E. Lee

As I said, Lee was very eloquent, and very wise. Maybe the neo-confederates should listen to him.

You people who think Ron Pauls comments are crazy, idiotic or he doesnt know history are simply ignorant. What makes you stupid is the fact you want to remain ignorant. The "civil" war was not necessary to end slavery. period. Historic fact: Grant said if the war was about slavery he would be on the other side. And Lincoln DID absolutely start the war. PLEASE before you start running your mouths do a little reading of history.

Looks like a turn around on this vote, at least by state count. Kind of like the electoral college. Glad to see Dishonest Abe is not vindicated here.

Its funny how the people that are anti-Paul can only say "he's a nutcase" or "he's an idiot" but cant formulate an explanation for that opinion. The Paul supporters understand what he's saying and can reasonably defend their position on it with a coherent and well thought explanation on WHY his viewpoint is valid....not to mention they have a better understanding of American history.
I wonder who the real idiots are....

Jean...

You sound like a well rounded individual. You obviously have good sense. I agree that the quote may have been represented too short. Sherman and Grant to us, should have been charged with war crimes, but wasn't. That is how we look at it. Maybe that is the reason I sold him short with his "War is Hell" quote. Thanks for the reply.

The will of the Minority. What minority are you referring that Ron Paul is catering to?

James4:45PMJan 3rd 2008

Jean...

"You sound like a well rounded individual. You obviously have good sense. I agree that the quote may have been represented too short. Sherman and Grant to us, should have been charged with war crimes, but wasn't. That is how we look at it. Maybe that is the reason I sold him short with his "War is Hell" quote. Thanks for the reply."

That is why you today are still considered seditionist Marxist rebels. Didn't you know that it is the WINNER that declares war crimes. Not the LOOSER's!

Majority rule and freedom won! Marxism and minority rule LOST. When the loser's are still 150 years later screaming "foul" "unfair" that just symolizes bad manners, low integrity, and extremely bad taste.

Even General Lee attempted to get that through your thick skulls.

First, Ron Paul has NEVER said we don't need a military and that we should never fight. I guess this guy knows as little about Ron Paul as he does American History, the Civil War, and our Constitution! Lincoln's acts were totally repugnant to the Constitution, period. I could name a whole list of outright violations - no state can attack and invade another state, no state can be split into another (W. Virginia out of Virginia), we should NEVER suspend habeas corpus like Lincoln did (Bush just did a few weeks ago!), Reconstruction was totally unconstitutional. I'll bet few of you know that Lincoln ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Taney (of USSC) because Taney disagreed with him on habeas corpus. How did the southern states vote to ratify the 13th amendment AFTER the war was over if they were not let back into the Union as states? If they were states again, then how/why did the NORTH kick them out of the Union again and turn them into military districts under martial law AFTER they all voted to ratify the 13th Amendment? They couldn't constitutionally do this, but they did because all Southern States as well as New Jersey, Ohio, and Oregon were against the 14th Amendment, and after all THIS is what the war was fought to get in the first place - so what if they had to kick out the Southern states out of the Union (after just fighting a war to keep the Union together remember?) in order to get it passed??? Hmmmmm?

Jean,

Several things you are missing regarding Gen. Lee's quotations...

1. He recanted those later (this is well documented) after he saw what the North had in store for the South via Reconstruction.

2. He wrongfully assumed that there were equally as noble men in the North.

James4:19PMJan 3rd 2008

"Its funny how the people that are anti-Paul can only say "he's a nutcase" or "he's an idiot" but cant formulate an explanation for that opinion. The Paul supporters understand what he's saying and can reasonably defend their position on it with a coherent and well thought explanation on WHY his viewpoint is valid....not to mention they have a better understanding of American history.
I wonder who the real idiots"


Hidden Truth Ministries;
Well now let's do a little review of the idea of voting for Ron Paul.

He claims that he agrees with a strong military for national defence: However he wishes to remove our troops from around the world and forsake our allies who are helping us prevent terrorists attacks on our soil.

He claims he wants to protect our homeland: Yet he wants to abolish the FBI who is the organization that is protecting us from future attacks and has already prevented attacks.

He advocates complete state rights and has proclaimed that Lincoln should have negotiated an agreement or settlement with the Southern states that committed an act of sedition and left our government because he was elected.

This is a pretty clear indication that if a state today such as California decided to secede from the union he would begin negotiations with them as an independent nation.

Now if one takes the time to really study the facts concerning the Mexican invasion, you will find they openly advocate taking back control of the United States and establishing their own form of government. They openly proclaim that their goal is to deport and erradicate all of the decendents of white European settlers from this land.

For the truth and facts concerning their motives click on this site:

http://www.hiddentruthministries.com/page5.html

These organizations are huge and have offices set up in Ninety percent of the high schools and Colleges in the southwest. You need to read this article and go right to their sites.

Ron Paul would eliminate the FBI that is keeping a watch on this huge subversive group. Ron Paul with states rights would allow California to completely open their border to flood these people in faster than they are already coming in.

With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to declare these heathens "California citizens".

With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to secede from the Union if they didn't approve of us attempting to control them for our protection.

Once California secedes their goes the majority of our best military basis on the West Coast and our best sea ports. Our entire West Coast would be vulnerable to attack by invaders.

But Hey, Ron Paul would maybe sit down and negotiate an agreement or settlement with these heathens. To bad we wouldn't have an FBI to help keep them from spreading out through the rest of the nation to do the same thing to the other states as they have done to California.

But then these Southern seditionists would highly approve of all of this, because of their hatred for losing the Civil War! They would love nothing more than to see this nation crumble.

Hell, why don't we vote them all in!!!!

bobknife997:10PMJan 3rd 2008

Why don't you just read the Marxist manifesto. I am quite sure they would agree with Thomas J DiLorenzo also,

Lauren7:12PMJan 3rd 2008

"It's funny how the media only focuses on the "bad things" Ron Paul says. Who cares what he actually plans to do for this country, and the fact that it's actually for the people!

He doesn't take any money from lobbyists because he refuses to do their bidding. He actually believes in running the country for the PEOPLE he governs. He's probably the one guy in politics you can't find anything on him that's corrupt.

He wants to get rid of the income tax which according to the constitution, we're not suppose to be getting anyway. It's Federal Reserve bank that is running that.

Instead of basing your decision on one little comment that's been drawn out of context, why don't you visit his website and see all the good things he plans on doing for the people."



Hidden Truth Ministries12:59AMJan 3rd 2008

Actually Ron Paul now has enough financing and public support by socialists (marxists) who will jump on any bandwagon that may have the oportunity to tear apart our great nation, that he could and can get media coverage.

He chooses to work via internet so that he can put out his propaganda from one side without being contested. He does not desire to have to explain his positions in depth that would effect todays society.

His only chance was to indoctrinate people through the internet and stay out of the spotlight.

Fortunately for us that method is incapable of success, because sooner or later one has to be accountable to critisism of their one sided indoctrination methods, prior to people voting for them.

That is of course with the exception of the socialists that love this indoctrination pattern in the hopes of swaying enough people to disrupt the nation, so that the socialists can get a firmer grip on it.

James4:19PMJan 3rd 2008

"Its funny how the people that are anti-Paul can only say "he's a nutcase" or "he's an idiot" but cant formulate an explanation for that opinion. The Paul supporters understand what he's saying and can reasonably defend their position on it with a coherent and well thought explanation on WHY his viewpoint is valid....not to mention they have a better understanding of American history.
I wonder who the real idiots"


Hidden Truth Ministries;
Well now let's do a little review of the idea of voting for Ron Paul.

He claims that he agrees with a strong military for national defence: However he wishes to remove our troops from around the world and forsake our allies who are helping us prevent terrorists attacks on our soil.

He claims he wants to protect our homeland: Yet he wants to abolish the FBI who is the organization that is protecting us from future attacks and has already prevented attacks.

He advocates complete state rights and has proclaimed that Lincoln should have negotiated an agreement or settlement with the Southern states that committed an act of sedition and left our government because he was elected.

This is a pretty clear indication that if a state today such as California decided to secede from the union he would begin negotiations with them as an independent nation.

Now if one takes the time to really study the facts concerning the Mexican invasion, you will find they openly advocate taking back control of the United States and establishing their own form of government. They openly proclaim that their goal is to deport and erradicate all of the decendents of white European settlers from this land.

For the truth and facts concerning their motives click on this site:

http://www.hiddentruthministries.com/page5.html

These organizations are huge and have offices set up in Ninety percent of the high schools and Colleges in the southwest. You need to read this article and go right to their sites.

Ron Paul would eliminate the FBI that is keeping a watch on this huge subversive group. Ron Paul with states rights would allow California to completely open their border to flood these people in faster than they are already coming in.

With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to declare these heathens "California citizens".

With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to secede from the Union if they didn't approve of us attempting to control them for our protection.

Once California secedes their goes the majority of our best military basis on the West Coast and our best sea ports. Our entire West Coast would be vulnerable to attack by invaders.

But Hey, Ron Paul would maybe sit down and negotiate an agreement or settlement with these heathens. To bad we wouldn't have an FBI to help keep them from spreading out through the rest of the nation to do the same thing to the other states as they have done to California.

But then these Southern seditionists would highly approve of all of this, because of their hatred for losing the Civil War! They would love nothing more than to see this nation crumble.

Hell, why don't we vote them all in!!!!

Hide Me From The Truth: “Ron Paul… claims that he agrees with a strong military for national defence: However he wishes to remove our troops from around the world and forsake our allies who are helping us prevent terrorists attacks on our soil.”

Truth: Ron Paul would remove troops from places where they are illegally waging war with Congressional declaration of war – just like the Constitution orders. (You and your kind are the closest thing to “terrorist attacks on our soil.”)

Hide Me From The Truth: “He claims he wants to protect our homeland: Yet he wants to abolish the FBI who is the organization that is protecting us from future attacks and has already prevented attacks.”

Truth: Ron Paul did not say he would abolish the FBI or the CIA: he said that he would pull them back to perform only their Constitutional roles.

Hide Me From The Truth: “He advocates complete state rights and has proclaimed that Lincoln should have negotiated an agreement or settlement with the Southern states that committed an act of sedition and left our government because he was elected.”

Truth: Southern states never committed an act of sedition; the North did – sedition against the Constitution, and Lincoln was their traitorous standard-bearer.

Hide Me From The Truth: “Now if one takes the time to really study the facts concerning the Mexican invasion, you will find they openly advocate taking back control of the United States and establishing their own form of government. They openly proclaim that their goal is to deport and erradicate all of the decendents of white European settlers from this land.”

Truth: Sort of like the US did in Mexico 90 years ago, you mean, because Mexico had oil that we wanted?

For the truth and facts concerning their motives click on this site:

Hide Me From The Truth: “With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to ….".

Truth: “… do whatever a sovereign State should be free to do under the original Constitution.”

Hide Me From The Truth: “With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to secede from the Union if they didn't approve of us attempting to control them for our protection.”

Truth: Uh, yeah, sort of like the early colonies did when England abused our contractual relationship …

Hide Me From The Truth: “Once California secedes their goes the majority of our best military basis on the West Coast and our best sea ports. Our entire West Coast would be vulnerable to attack by invaders.”

Truth: But you already admitted that it is being invaded now while the federal government you love so dearly looks the other way.

Hide Me From The Truth: “… these Southern seditionists would highly approve of all of this, because of their hatred for losing the Civil War! They would love nothing more than to see this nation crumble.”

Truth: We never had nor did we lose a “civil war.” We lost the War for Southern Independence … to a bunch of contract breakers and Constitution haters. And since you don’t seem to recognize it, the nation that we had up until then DID crumble at that time.

Hide Me From The Truth: “Ron Paul… claims that he agrees with a strong military for national defence: However he wishes to remove our troops from around the world and forsake our allies who are helping us prevent terrorists attacks on our soil.”

Truth: Ron Paul would remove troops from places where they are illegally waging war withOUT Congressional declaration of war – just like the Constitution orders. (You and your kind are the closest thing to “terrorist attacks on our soil.”)

Hide Me From The Truth: “He claims he wants to protect our homeland: Yet he wants to abolish the FBI who is the organization that is protecting us from future attacks and has already prevented attacks.”

Truth: Ron Paul did not say he would abolish the FBI or the CIA; only their abuses: he said that he would pull them back to perform only their Constitutional roles.

Hide Me From The Truth: “He advocates complete state rights and has proclaimed that Lincoln should have negotiated an agreement or settlement with the Southern states that committed an act of sedition and left our government because he was elected.”

Truth: Southern states never committed an act of sedition; the North did – sedition against the Constitution, and Lincoln was their traitorous standard-bearer.

Hide Me From The Truth: “Now if one takes the time to really study the facts concerning the Mexican invasion, you will find they openly advocate taking back control of the United States and establishing their own form of government. They openly proclaim that their goal is to deport and erradicate all of the decendents of white European settlers from this land.”

Truth: Sort of like the US did in Mexico 90 years ago, you mean, because Mexico had oil that we wanted?

Hide Me From The Truth: “With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to ….".

Truth: “… do whatever a sovereign State should be free to do under the original Constitution.”

Hide Me From The Truth: “With states rights, Ron Paul would allow California to secede from the Union if they didn't approve of us attempting to control them for our protection.”

Truth: Uh, yeah, sort of like the early colonies did when England abused our contractual relationship …

Hide Me From The Truth: “Once California secedes their (sic) goes the majority of our best military basis on the West Coast and our best sea ports. Our entire West Coast would be vulnerable to attack by invaders.”

Truth: But you already admitted that it is being invaded now while the federal government you love so dearly looks the other way.

Hide Me From The Truth: “… these Southern seditionists would highly approve of all of this, because of their hatred for losing the Civil War! They would love nothing more than to see this nation crumble.”

Truth: We never had nor did we lose a “civil war.” We lost the War for Southern Independence … to a bunch of contract breakers and Constitution haters. And since you don’t seem to recognize it, the nation that we had up until then DID crumble at that time.

Dr. Paul's comments are again, taken out of context. Anything to discredit a man with an absolutely pure and intelligent message. The context of the question is within the context of handling explosive situations. Ron Paul prefers to use intelligence and reason. You stupid people want to use guns. Well, looks like you're gonna get your chance. We Patriots are not going to put up with another goddamn scumbag liar who will use our children to fight their wars for profit. And you can take that to the bank. So enjoy your philosophy. You will get a chance to put your money where your mouth is before this is over. You chicken shits better pray Ron Paul wins.

billipcranger110:22PMJan 3rd 2008

"Dr. Paul's comments are again, taken out of context. Anything to discredit a man with an absolutely pure and intelligent message. The context of the question is within the context of handling explosive situations. Ron Paul prefers to use intelligence and reason. You stupid people want to use guns. Well, looks like you're gonna get your chance. We Patriots are not going to put up with another goddamn scumbag liar who will use our children to fight their wars for profit. And you can take that to the bank. So enjoy your philosophy. You will get a chance to put your money where your mouth is before this is over. You chicken shits better pray Ron Paul wins."

Tsk, tsk, tsk, haven't you people learned yet to not let your alligator mouth overload your huminbird Ass?

I wouldn't waste my time prayin for Ron Paul if I was you. He not only is going to lose, he isn't even in the race.

Y'all come back now, ya hear!