Trickle-Down-Size Economics: New Jobless Claims Jump

"Sales of guns this year are up 8 to 10 percent."
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These people are just thinking of strolling in the park, I am sure .....

i'll just say it...i have no trust for Mark Penn...if he is aiming folks in one direction...i look at Warren Buffet snapping up preferred stock looking at buying in the storm ...then choose who seems to be more right than wrong...more often

Penn loses badly...i just wonder what is his real aim with his meme he appears to be attempting to create....i would guess - not good

So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that when big companies are hurting that pain "trickles down" to the little guys?

I thought you libs said trickle down economics of the Reagan Era didn't work. I guess it does only when it is convenient to your argument?

You would have to be blind not to have seen this "microtrend". When conservative policies are abandoned by Washington, people become even more defensive, protective, frugal ... conservative. Imagine that.

i think there is something a bit more nefarious occurring and there should be investigations to find out ...starting in Treasury

the pain trickles down...not the glory...

seems that you fascists believe in free market when it means profits but socialized pain...

purveyors of opposites ...your day is done...

i am waiting for the perp walks that will be demanded...you guys have no clue how this is shaping...but i love it that you guys are still listening to Penn...

this looks good for the People...LOL

Splash11:43AMDec 11th 2008

So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that when big companies are hurting that pain "trickles down" to the little guys?
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Big companies 'hurting'? Who is doing the 'hurting'? The CEO? The stockholders? I thought the word for companies was 'mismanaged'. I thought that PEOPLE hurt. It's the first time I hear that a company 'hurts'.

That must be new Republican sentimentality ;-)

My heart bleeds for the 'hurting' CEOs and Boards of Directors ......

huntin' ur pachyderm, ridin' my a__

your kung fu...

is NO MATCH!

for my ... LOL

*delayed lip sync*
;-)

lotsa' heads on the wall...

shhh...be vewy vewy quiet

The Case for a Genuine Gold Dollar
http://mises.org/rothbard/genuine.asp

seems that you fascists believe in free market when it means profits but socialized pain...


xxx

only for poor people. socialized goodies for the bear stearns hedge fund holders. I'll bet they didn't have to fire a single illegal alien domestic chained in the basement among 'em.

HardCoreRepublican12:05PMDec 11th 2008


Splash11:43AMDec 11th 2008

So let me get this straight. You mean to tell me that when big companies are hurting that pain "trickles down" to the little guys?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Big companies 'hurting'? Who is doing the 'hurting'? The CEO? The stockholders? I thought the word for companies was 'mismanaged'. I thought that PEOPLE hurt. It's the first time I hear that a company 'hurts'.

That must be new Republican sentimentality ;-)

My heart bleeds for the 'hurting' CEOs and Boards of Directors ......
_______________________________

Oh, HCR, so full of class envy, mincing words to elevate the dehumanization of the corporate world. What is a corporation, but a large collection of individuals people all of which are capable of being hurt and feeling pain? It is easy to generalize that only the workers feel pain and that the higher ups see their employees only as numbers; neither is completely true or false.

Of course companies hurt. Do you question whether plants hurt when you are trying to save the trees? They just hurt in a different way. Plants show pain by wilting, drying up and losing color before they die.

Companies show pain with shrinking sales, stock value and debt to asset ratios before they declare bankruptcy. This company pain manifests itself in a smaller workforce, the pain that trickles down on the little guy.

Just as human activity inflicts unnecessary pain on plants through deforestation and chemicals (both in water and air) so also does artificial human influence inflict pain on companies through punitive taxation, unnecessary over-regulation and political activism (like environmental bunk and labor unions).

Just like the pain to plants sends ripples through the entire natural food chain so does corporate pain send seismic shock waves through the entire corporate ladder, trickling down to even entry level positions of the company feeling the pain; last hired, first fired ... blah, blah, blah.

My point was that it is funny how liberals are willing to recognize that economic pain trickles down (as in David Knowles article, above) but deny that economic bliss (tax relief, deregulation non union labor forces) don't flow down the same riverbed to the very people liberal policies fail to protect from pain in the first place.

If you don't see how the liberal creation of a political apparatus like labor unions, punitive over-taxation and out of control regulation hurt the lowest of the low, then, HCR, your blindness is only outdone by the deception represented in your screen name.

Voice of Reason11:51AMDec 11th 2008

seems that you fascists believe in free market when it means profits but socialized pain...
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Absolutely ... Isn't that what the $850B Fail Out Plan was all about? Isn't that the type of reckless financial behavior it fosters?

Clif Kuplen1:08PMDec 11th 2008

seems that you fascists believe in free market when it means profits but socialized pain...


xxx

only for poor people. socialized goodies for the bear stearns hedge fund holders. I'll bet they didn't have to fire a single illegal alien domestic chained in the basement among 'em.
___________________________________

Clif -

I am sure you mean only for the middle class. The poor have plenty of socialized goodies. As do the rich have their perks. It is the middle class that is always left holding the bag and footing the bill.

Prime example: With all this talk about socializing large industries, suddenly the middle class tax cut (which I had better get) gets no mention at all. I hope The Big O's silence on the subject means that the tax cut for us 95%ers is already a done deal, but I hope you can understand my skepticism.

splash...i was not in favor of the financial bailout like most Americans...you aren't keeping up...

it was theft of Our Treasury by Paulson & Bush for the Wall St giants pockets...the money still sits in vaults as companies fail...UK put teeth in their loan

this new one i am in favor with serious strings attached to the LOANS

and for the record...i corporation is a legal (immortal) entity ...seen as a non-human individual...

the difference is that We as citizens can vote where the entity requires lobbyists...

Our vote is worth much more...that is why the corporations can't win this fight with the People...

if We end up owning the damn automotive industry...Democrats...i suggest placing the entire thing into the hands of the workers and universities to manage and legislate that when they become profitable again that a part of the profit start to fund our education system to offset what We spend as taxpayers

all deficit spending should be spent as investment in the future if the future must pay for it...it is the only right thing to do...

ignore the Hooverian thinkers...they are fools

all i know is the righties are lining themselves up for more pain...i guess stupid is as stupid does

LOL

. The poor have plenty of socialized goodies.

xxx

I wouldn't call them 'goodies' since at best they provide less than needed for subsistence.

There are and should be some social safety nets, but they're a drop in the bucket compared to corporate welfare, and of course if your money earns your money you pay less than half the taxes you do on a job that earns your money.

But I wouldn't dispute what you say about the middle class since it's statistically in our faces and of course it shrinks under republicans since destruction of the middle class is an objective of republicans since Russel Kirk's bringing the idea forward from that obscene XVII century atavist Edmund Burke.

But as to benefits for the poor, usually it's benefits for those who are legitimately medically incapacitated and kids who might otherwise starve, reagan's bloviating notwithstanding.

AIG, Citi, Bear, Fannie, Freddie all corporations getting cash...


poor people not worthy of free cheese...this is Righty thinking...aren't they wonderful people?

when they let so many Americans lose their jobs and the pain is felt in the middle class and they look for who to burn at the stake i will be pointing to McConnell, Shelby, Vitter and the lot of them...

i will be sure to make sure to blast every Obama voter email box across the nation

Voice of Reason2:43PMDec 11th 2008

splash...i was not in favor of the financial bailout like most Americans...you aren't keeping up...

it was theft of Our Treasury by Paulson & Bush for the Wall St giants pockets...the money still sits in vaults as companies fail...UK put teeth in their loan

this new one i am in favor with serious strings attached to the LOANS

and for the record...i corporation is a legal (immortal) entity ...seen as a non-human individual...

the difference is that We as citizens can vote where the entity requires lobbyists...

Our vote is worth much more...that is why the corporations can't win this fight with the People...
_______________________________

VoR -

What's the rub, bub? I was agreeing with you. I know you were against The Fail Out plan. This UAW Bail Out is no different, just smaller and if the UAW was not such a huge monetary supporter and voting block for the libs the CEOs would not be on capital hill and there would be no circus show by the libs to cover the only reason they are pushing this "loan" package - political pay back to the UAW.

For the record, The Fail Out Plan "was theft of Our Treasury by Paulson & Bush" AND PELOSI AND REID AND BIG MAC AND THE BIG O "For the Wall St giants pockets". The entire Washington power structure pushed it through, so let's be fair; they all suck including the new spend-aholic we sent to the White House.

Back on track, though, businesses are incorporated to make them separate entities. They may be immortal, but they have a life source all their own and, when they hurt, their people hurt right along with them. When times are good, everybody benefits, whether you admit it or not; workers don't lose their jobs, might get raises, maybe even bonuses.

Yes, we people vote and that is why the libs have done everything in their power to get this UAW bail out through, including twisting the UAW's presidential bonehead to at least act like he is willing to budge, even if none of his budging was very meaningful.

This is all about the maintenance of the UAW contract and the survival of unions in general as a liberal base. The auto companies will go on regardless. This claim that they can only file chapter 7 is bogus, but even if it were true, someone would buy the Big 3 out of liquidation - perhaps the oil companies.

And this bunk that Americans won't buy cars while the Big 3 are in Chap 11 is also fear mongering. Americans love a good bargain (that is why they buy imports) and they would get them more than ever if the Big 3 were in Chap 11. Warranties would go into a trust fund. New companies would be born to fulfill warranty work. Out of chaos, opportunities abound, new fortunes are made ... and life goes on.

Unions must go, or at least be curtailed in their quest for greedy compensation packages that they would never get under normal unimpeded market conditions. You have people making upper management money for screwing the same bolt in the same spot hour after hour, day after day, year after year. Hell, you have 12,000 people getting paid 95% of upper management money FOR NOT SCREWING ON THAT SAME BOLT. That is an awful lot of screwing going on! In a non-union company, if I told my boss I hired even one person to do that screwing for $73/hr I would be summarily fired.

VoR, I think your support of this UAW bail out defies your screen name and your opposition to the much bigger, although equally as unwise, Fail Out Plan; your "serious strings attached" would have to be pretty bankruptcy-like to convince me otherwise. Let the market have her way with this foolishness and the surviving companies, plus the new ones that will rise from the ashes, will be better, faster, stronger - almost bionic.

Lastly, the corporations are not fighting with the people. The libs are fighting the desire and the will of the people (once again) and covering up their true political motivations with this fiasco they call hearings. Libs WANT to do this, they just don't want us to KNOW WHY they want to do this.

As if we are that dumb.