CHARLESTON, S.C. -- South Carolina can never escape its ghosts -- not that it wants to. And you can't change the rules for town halls, even if you do want to.
The crowd at Monday morning's town hall meeting at The Citadel – featuring the marquee duo of Senators and good buddies John McCain and Lindsey Graham -- sat quietly for a while. But total decorum was not possible.
Someone even questioned why such a crucial gathering was scheduled early on a weekday. Because "I decided to come to The Citadel and I'm the senator," said Graham (R-S.C.). He later amended his answer to say that he "knew we'd have cadets here" and "the war is important to me." (When you've started the meeting asking for civility – "being mad doesn't solve the problem," Graham had said -- it looks bad when you get snippy with constituents.)
Get the new PD toolbar!During the question-and-answer session that followed opening remarks from McCain (R-Ariz.) and Graham, questioners didn't always wait for the microphone and sometimes interrupted the answers. "Ask a question," people shouted when someone launched into yet another long-winded statement. While generally supportive of the senators and their views, the crowd wasn't completely united on the issues discussed, from President Obama's views on health care reform to troop deployment to Afghanistan, an especially grave concern for the Citadel cadets.
Yes, looking around at the men (and the few women) in uniform at McAlister Field House, you could not forget we were at The Citadel, a school defined by as much by its Confederate tradition as its academic excellence. It's no surprise that even U.S. senators would encounter resistance.
While McCain and Graham talked about keeping the temperature down, they also hit every hot-button issue. "If anybody tells you there was bi-partisanship" on negotiations for the health care bill, McCain said, "they were not there." McCain said amendments that would prohibit abortion funding and require proof of citizenship were turned down, and that President Obama's one good point during his health care speech – on establishing risk pools – was his idea. "The public option is dead, as far as I'm concerned," said Graham, repeating what he had said on "Fox News Sunday." "Nobody in this room can compete with the government."
One brave soul stood up to complain about the "conflict of interest between profit and care of the individual" and say a single-payer system is not socialized medicine; he got another Graham rebuke ("Making money is OK, pal") and a few scattered boos.
The senators decried the mounting debt, with McCain setting his opposition to pork, earmarks and what he called "generational theft" back through the previous Republican administrations, thus reminding everyone of his maverick bona fides on that issue (and on torture and climate change, as well).
Neither rejected the need for health care reform, just the present plan's potential effectiveness in controlling costs while preserving quality of care.
And considering the setting, it was no surprise that Afghanistan came up: It's "not Obama's war -- this is America's war," said Graham. "It breaks my heart to say we need more troops, but we do." McCain called for immediate deployment of additional troops. "The president needs to make that decision now," he said. To someone who questioned America's involvement there, he answered, "Democracies are messy things. It's difficult, it's hard; we can and must succeed."
After this summer, no one's going to dial it back to make town halls models of civility. And after a while, McCain and Graham stopped trying. Both praised the town halls, tea parties and the weekend's Washington demonstration, which McCain called "a peaceful revolution" and "an uprising the likes of which I have never seen." McCain said that in appointing policy "czars," Obama is "obviously circumventing the Constitution." But in the room, there was not even agreement on what the Constitution is -- "a guiding document," as Graham said, or "the law of the land," as someone shouted out angrily in response. One cadet said a government health care plan (like Medicare?) would be "completely unconstitutional."
Despite the outbursts, you could see people trying so hard in this military setting to observe some rules of engagement. That was clear when Graham charged everyone to look in the mirror and ask themselves, "Am I willing to embrace change?" He talked about taking personal responsibility about everything from health and wellness (you can smoke but you should have to pay more for care) to energy use. "Don't celebrate failure," said Graham. Instead, he said, work with the government on what it should be doing. "Don't give us a pass on everything that's hard." It sounded a little like – dare I say it – an Obama rally.
But as the meeting broke up, little skirmishes broke out. Marvin Nochowitz from Charleston told me he wanted to ask the senators, "How are they going to take the Republican Party back?" Nochowitz, 63, said he wanted to hear them say they didn't believe in the "birther" movement and death panels and the GOP "being led by Rush Limbaugh."
"You're not a Republican," shouted Jim Moring, a self-employed Charleston businessman who overheard the interview. (Actually Nochowitz isn't, but his wife is.) Moring said neither McCain nor Graham is conservative enough for him. Graham lost him when he voted to confirm Judge Sonia Sotomayor ("not a good choice") for the Supreme Court. And though Moring believes the president is a citizen, he said the "birthers" have a right to speak. If Obama thought their claims have no legitimacy, "Why didn't he come out with his birth certificate?" he asked.
Just when I began thinking that no one would ever wait his or her turn again, someone did, a young cadet I spoke with as the crowd filed out. James Bradley is a 20-year-old junior from Columbus, Ga., attending The Citadel on an Army scholarship. He would have liked to ask the senators what will happen if the war in Afghanistan bleeds into Pakistan, prompting incursions across borders. He wants to know because in two years, it's a war he will be fighting.
But the political science major also had other concerns. As an African-American cadet – one of the 7.2 percent in a total enrollment of 2,098 – he fights other battles, he said, including fellow cadets who take an oath "to duty and honor" yet refuse to give President Obama the respect due him as commander in chief; classmates who wave the Confederate flag and say it's about "heritage and tradition," when part of that tradition was oppressing blacks.
Bradley ran for class president twice and lost by one vote each time, he said (adding, "I find that kind of weird."). He is judged liberal because he is black, he said, even though he tries not to let race affect his views. He said disagreement on issues such as health care are really about class, about who has it and who doesn't. The president, he said, "is trying to fix it."
And what's so bad about the word "change"? If you go by the original Constitution, he said, "minorities wouldn't be where they are today. You're supposed to amend it."
When Bradley joins a war with bullets, he wants to know that his fellow officers will be able to command a diverse army, while respecting each soldier's views, even when those views are not shared. It's hard, even for a sergeant in the South Carolina Corps of Cadet, to fight the ghosts of tradition in a place that's built on them.
Mary C. Curtis, an NPR contributor based in Charlotte, N.C., was previously a writer and editor for The New York Times and the Charlotte Observer... more
Good grief. I will say that the Radical Right is great for comedy material (Jon and Stephen are back tonight from a 3 week vacation, whew!!). But it is now the time for the Left to let their voices be heard as well--otherwise, as Dr. Phil says: "You get what you settle for."
Lindsey Graham has powder puff balls. He's no Republican! Get rid of him South Carolina.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (8)
daballofire
3:56PM Sep 14th 2009
Both of senators claim to be Republicans and Conservatives but you have to call them 'Weak Kneed' ones or 'Fake Ones' on both counts at best.
We tried to get McCain thrown out of the local VFW for 1. only showing up once ever 6 years when he wanted votes, 2. His giving amnesty and citizenship to illegal aliens and trying to ram it down our throats with the left and President Bush in tow, and 3. calling torture the stripping down of Islamic terrorists, putting underwear on their heads, putting a dog collar and leash on them to take them for a walk and water boarding them but, we too lost by one vote. I hear it sure scared the heck out of him when he found out that he had nearly been 86'ed with him being the war hero and all.
Oddly, I think we could get him out now and just might try again.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (-2)
Carneil
4:53PM Sep 14th 2009
Why on earth would The Citadel allow these two bumpkins to speak there?
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daballofire
4:57PM Sep 14th 2009
For the same reason we allow you to speak here.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (10)
hairhofla
5:02PM Sep 14th 2009
We're Witnessing The Implosion And Fragmentation Of The Republican Party...The "Hardcore" Republicans Won't Tolerate A "RINO" Moderate But America Won't Tolerate The Hardcore Republicans
RATE THIS COMMENT: (2)
brenda k greene
5:17PM Sep 14th 2009
YOU ALL JUST STAY OFF JOHN MCCAIN, HE HAS MORE CLASS THAN ANY OF YOU REPUBLICAN WILL EVER HAVE, I RESPECT JOHN AND MEGHAN, THE ONLY THING WRONG WITH HIM AND HER, THEY ARE REPUBLICANS, AND THEY BOTH HAVE RESPECT FOR OTHERS,
RATE THIS COMMENT: (6)
MK
6:11PM Sep 14th 2009
Frankly, I have thought for year that Lindsey Graham is one we need to replace, McCain too but he is not in my voting district. Lets see who agrees in 2010
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Tawny Jones
6:58PM Sep 14th 2009
Graham and McCain: two hideous, worthless old cadavers.
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Karen
7:21PM Sep 14th 2009
I was at that meeting today and it was not volatile and it was very ereseved. This story is an exaggerration--one woman spoke out of turn without a mike. There were under your breath comments but the people in the audience behaved better than Lindsay Graham. He was an arrogant ass and I am a die hard republican--he has lost my vote. They are both to left of the line for me. It is amazing how the reporter for this story spun it the way they did--totally exaggerated!
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PCL
7:31PM Sep 14th 2009
IT (aka Truth) when I want humor, I read your inane posts--I already know my French history, and I know the French's role in American history, as well--do you? Probablement pas, parce que vous êtes un Américain stupide. Say hello to the wifey for me, won't you?
Current Health Insurance is a Biblical Harlot riding on Americans. They (Harlot and Republicans) descriminate sick , poor and old. And you have to buy Afflac too!! But when you get sick They-Harlot supported by Republicans cancel Insurance and Americans 1.6 Million per year getting bankrupted!. So now is a time for Insurance for all Americans! let us stop monopoly of Harlot and Rpublicans support of it.
God bless Obama and all Americans!!!!!!
Republicans are more conservative until conception, but after that Democrats getting all responsibilities for the rest of the life of new conception (person), so in conclusion -in Gods eye Democrats are far more conservative than Harlot-Republicans!!
Preachers confuse Americans and deliver them to Republicans in the form of votes, and they get kick-back in the form of "Base Faith Initiative" and this is their Conservatism!!!!
for us working Americans Republicans deliver "radioactive shafts" - mortgages, credit cards and Harlot Insurance.
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Alex Lekas
8:36PM Sep 14th 2009
what exactly does the Confederate flag have to do with health care reform? Unbelievable as it must seem to members of the cloistered media, the south runs circles around the north in terms of racial coexistence. As Graham is a Senator from SC, so Clyburn is the House Whip and also from SC. By the way, folks do remember the Professor Gates flap upfolded in Bah-stun, not Chal-stun.
Much as it pains those from outside the South, there are those who forebears fought in the Civil War, just as there are blacks whose ancestors were slaves. No asks the latter to forget; why must the latter?
That aside, any loss of decorum at town halls is hardly confined to southern states and, as this story shows, it's not confined to the constituents of Democrat representatives. So what was the point of the piece, beyond a thinly-veiled attempt to make the South look bad and from someone whose biography indicates a personal history that should know better.
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gvpal52
9:15PM Sep 14th 2009
To all conservative women: I know about the power that you posses and I am going to ask you to use it in the war to save our free nation. I am aware of the potential ramifications of doing so and offer to be judged in your place. I can not sit by and watch evil erode all that goodness has built. You know what you have to do and in case you don't know it it can be used to destroy as easily as it is used to love. Love them but destroy them. Fire at will!!! I love you. Pray for me.
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carl22grant
11:40PM Sep 14th 2009
The stars and bars have to do with being independent; it is a battle flag. It is very similar to the Don't Tread On ME flag. It is sad that the author desired to end a realitively decent article the way she did.
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Lacy Lady
12:39AM Sep 15th 2009
Someone should ask Mccain if he ever thanked Ross Perou who paid all of his first wife's hospital and Doctor bills when she was in a car accident while he was in prison. Thousands of dollars. Some of us don't have a generous friend to pay our medical bills. I guess his thanks was to divorce her when he got home. The voters are paying, not only the salaries of our senators, but also their health insurance. They don't give a hoot about the American people who do not have health care insurance. My husband and I have health insurance, but many in our family do not. This country spends more on Wars than any country in the world. What is wrong with helping our fellow Americans keep healthy?
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pmbalele
3:41AM Sep 15th 2009
You're right and on top of the issue. Thanks to people like you who know what hospitals ask first when you seek medical attention. "Do you have health insurance?. If you don't hospitals refer you to a clinic in the poor neighborhood. Once again let me say this. The pundits: Sean Hannity, Rush, Michael Steele, Allan Keyes, the Bimbo from Alaska and other Chritian fundamentalists do not want 41mi Americans to have medical care because there are not enough doctors? These people are in pockets of health insurance companies. These are same people were haunting Obama during the election. We should not forget that. All people in this country should have access to madical care regardless of race or income status. President Obama is right. Please do not believe polls. Respondents of these polls are haters of progressive people. These are hard core republicans and corrupt capitalists who have messed up this country for a long time. Now reality has caught on us. The country was failing. Now it is on the rebound with Obama as President. Do not get me wrong-I love capitalism. It makes people work hard. But I do not like corrupt capitalism. That is why we have government to oversee what business are doing to people. The country was bankrupt by Republicans or corrupt capitalists. Republicans and uncaught corrupt capitalists are now crying" ballooning deficit!!" Since when Republicans or corrupt capitalists were concerned about deficit? Republicans have been trying to kill this country for a long time for their selfish ends. Look, there are more than 45 mi uninsured Americans. Do Republicans care? Hell no. They went to invade Iraq. Did they criticize Bush? No. Now Here is our angel, President Obama, is trying to repair what was messed up past eight years. Republicans and conservatives are crying foul. Are these people for real? No. When did Republicans and so called corrupt capitalists were ever concerned about future generations or deficit? No. After all future generation will solve its own problems-that is what radical right usually believe in. Forty years ago did we have lap-top computers to facilitate business? no. Present general discovered computers. So let future generation solve its problems. We have to solve our problems now to prepare future general to solve its problems. Future generation does not want to be babysat. They can solve its own problems. Thank God we have Obama as our President.
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pmbalele
3:21AM Sep 15th 2009
We know Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'reilly and many others are unhappy that an African-American is in the white house. However, they forget that Obama charateristics were and are still unmatched to any of those candidates competing for presidency at that time. Obama, as may of his father's tribe, is very intelligent. None of presidential hopefuls, regardless of race, could match Obama charisma. Of course some black people such as Allen Keyes, Michael Steele and others are jealous that such a young man should be our lovely President. And do not forget this moron from S. Carolina shouting in midist of Obama speech. He just another George Wallace. All explains that some Republicans are unhappy that a democrat is in white house. After the election I saw Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush, Michael Steele, Bill O'reilly, Allan Keyes, the Bimbo from Alaska and other Chritian fundamentalists cry their eyes off. Do you really think these morons will be quiet? Hell no. So they are now rallying other republicans to create chaos in this country. In any case people are now realizing that the TEA party is a group of gruntled Republicans. In fact if you interview any of them, you will find none of them has reason to picket other than sour grapes. Above do not believe in polls. Respondents of these polls are those with phones, computers. As such polls exclude poor and busy people. TEA party will soon end. We have an angel in the White House now. I am sure one day Obama is going to speak to these people. God Bless America. We have Obama as our President.
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kathy
4:04AM Sep 15th 2009
pmbalele, I find it hilarious that you call the Tea Party Protesters "disgruntled Republicans", these people come from all walks of life and from all parties, Dems, Reps, and Independants. And for some stupid reason you think its about Obama alone. No, No,No...... this is simply about Spend, Spend, Spend, and Government intrusion.
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pmbalele
3:28AM Sep 15th 2009
Thanks for your comments. We know Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'reilly and many others are unhappy that an African-American is in the white house. However, they forget that Obama charateristics were and are still unmatched to any of those candidates competing for presidency at that time. Obama, as may of his father's tribe, is very intelligent. None of presidential hopefuls, regardless of race, could match Obama charisma. Of course some black people such as Allen Keyes, Michael Steele and others are jealous that such a young man should be our lovely President. And do not forget this moron from S. Carolina shouting in midist of Obama speech. He just another George Wallace. All explains that some Republicans are unhappy that a democrat is in white house. After the election I saw Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush, Michael Steele, Bill O'reilly, Allan Keyes, the Bimbo from Alaska and other Chritian fundamentalists cry their eyes off. Do you really think these morons will be quiet? Hell no. So they are now rallying other republicans to create chaos in this country. In any case people are now realizing that the TEA party is a group of gruntled Republicans. In fact if you interview any of them, you will find none of them has reason to picket other than sour grapes. Above do not believe in polls. Respondents of these polls are those with phones, computers. As such polls exclude poor and busy people. TEA party will soon end. We have an angel in the White House now. I am sure one day Obama is going to speak to these people. God Bless America. We have Obama as our President. nks for your comments.