For three hours Wednesday, Barack Obama and his national security team looked bleakly in the Afghan abyss and debated whether to send as many as 40,000 additional troops to a land that was once synonymous with obscurity. The troop request number – drawn from a leaked memo by Gen. Stanley McChrystal – underscores the lasting implications of Obama's statement during the second presidential debate last October, "Part of the reason I think it's so important for us to end the war in Iraq is to be able to get more troops into Afghanistan."
But it is difficult for anyone, let alone the president, to think of Afghanistan as the good war anymore. Even after an eight-year American military commitment, Afghanistan still resembles a failed state with the Taliban resurgent. Everything from the flagrant ballot stuffing that destroyed the credibility of President Hamid Karzai's apparent re-election to the military morass compellingly described by my colleague David Wood has turned the latest Afghan War into Obama's first full-fledged foreign-policy crisis.
The dilemma facing the best and the brightest of the Obama administration is in many ways reminiscent of the predicament that confronted Lyndon Johnson in early 1965 as he found himself staring bleakly at a fork in the road in Vietnam. (National security adviser McGeorge Bundy actually wrote a so-called "fork in the road" memo to Johnson in late January 1965 in which he stated that continuing a merely advisory mission "can only lead to disastrous defeat.") During an off-the-record meeting with reporters at roughly the same time, Johnson likened himself to a man standing on a newspaper in the middle of an ocean. If he leaned left or right, he said, "I'll topple over." But the status quo was equally dangerous because, as LBJ put it, "If I stay where I am, the paper will be soaked up and I'll sink slowly to the bottom of the sea."
Johnson, of course, made the wrong decision – the first American combat troops of the war, two Marine battalions totaling 3,500 men, splashed ashore at Danang on the morning of March 8, 1965. As Stanley Karnow tells it in Vietnam: A History, "They rushed onto the beach...to be greeted by grinning Vietnamese girls distributing garlands of flowers and a poster proclaiming, 'Welcome to the Gallant Marines.'" By the end of 1965, American troop levels in Vietnam had increased by more than sixfold to 184,000 men. What had begun as a training mission to prop up the weak government of South Vietnam ended as the most tragic debacle in American military history.
Ever since the last helicopter lifted off from the besieged American embassy in Saigon in 1975, citing Vietnam parallels has become a way to stifle debate over other American military commitments. Just the expression, "It's another Vietnam," seems to prejudge the argument. This is unfortunate because there are contemporary lessons that can be drawn from the Johnson administration's Vietnam decision-making in early 1965 without automatically concluding that Afghanistan is a lost cause.
History is not algebra: There are no unalterable patterns or rules. And there are, to be sure, significant differences between Vietnam and Afghanistan. The instability of nuclear-armed Pakistan and its porous border with Afghanistan seems a far more realistic threat than 1960s fears of a Communist long march through Asia. America now depends on a professional, albeit over-stretched, military rather than the draft. And it is hard to think of a Democratic president less like the contained, understated Barack Obama than the volcanic Lyndon Johnson.
But there are also suggestive parallels between Vietnam in 1965 and Afghanistan now. The choices facing America in Vietnam were bleak – gradually pull out in the face of an almost-certain North Vietnamese victory; depend on the unlikely notion that saturation bombing alone would bring Hanoi to the negotiating table; or escalate with ground troops. A weak and incompetent civilian government in Saigon – which might make Karzai look like a statesman in comparison – was ousted in May 1965 by a military coup led by Air Marshal Nguyen Cao Ky and Gen. Nguyen Van Thieu. And on the political front, the Johnson administration knew that it would be vulnerable to Republican attacks if it retreated – little more than a decade earlier Democrats were reeling from right-wing accusations that they had deliberately handed over China to the Communists.
The decision to Americanize the Vietnam War was made incrementally over a six-month period in 1965 after dozens of meetings, volumes of memos, but little long-term strategic thinking. As John Prados writes in Vietnam: The History of an Unwinnable War, 1945-1975, "The process (was) one of ambivalent men marching into a conflict that they did not understand in pursuit of goals they had failed to clarify."
The expansion of the air war over North Vietnam meant that the U.S. air base in Danang was vulnerable to Vietcong attack. To protect Danang, Gen. William Westmoreland called for insertion of 3,500 Marines, later insisting that he did not see this temporary measure as "the first step in a growing American commitment." In a taped conversation in March 1965, LBJ confided to Georgia Sen. Richard Russell, "I'm scared to death of putting ground forces in, but I'm more frightened about losing a bunch of planes from a lack of security...I think everybody's going to think, 'We're landing the Marines. We're off to battle.'"
But just a month later, Johnson approved sending two more Marine combat battalions to Vietnam – and, more importantly, allowed them to mount operations against the enemy instead of merely guarding bases. "With that decree, the Americanization of war was arguably an accomplished fact," writes Gordon Goldstein in Lessons in Disaster: McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam. "Not only was the Kennedy no-combat-troop policy decisively reversed, the mission of U.S. forces was now active participation in offensive counter-insurgency operations."
There is a widespread theory that Johnson erred by not listening to naysayers in Congress like Senate Majority Leader Mike Mansfield and within his own administration like George Ball, the under secretary of State. And, in fact, Vice President Hubert Humphrey was barred from major foreign-policy meetings for a year because of his vociferous expression of dovish views.
But recent histories suggest that Ball, in particular, may have been more than just an in-house devil's advocate. According to Prados in his Vietnam War history, "Transcripts of the Oval Office and NSC meetings show LBJ working much harder than would be consistent with a devil's advocate model, even baiting Ball to draw him out. Either LBJ was making a record or he truly hoped George Ball would convince others in the room."
If there is a moral to come out of the fatally flawed 1965 Johnson administration decision-making, it probably is the innate bias of virtually all presidential advisers for action over inaction, for trying something new rather than stumbling forward with an inadequate status quo. The do-something ethos is an occupational hazard with presidents, regardless of party or ideology. And, sadly, that probably applies to Afghanistan as much as Vietnam.
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Win their hearts and their asses will follow. I was one of the combat troops, babykillers they said when I came home. The truth is that the only survival tactic that worked, Keep the kids around, give them candy, food friendship and something to think about[Children are our immortality]. Hero's don't shoot guns. Governments like religion, B.S.! If we stay forever; so what. If we had sent tourists to Cuba, we would have been partners in humanity long ago. We did win in Vietnam. Ask my Vietnamese friends, they travel back and forth. We [USA]trade with them. There is no "stick big enough to carry", But a listening ear and helping hand go far.
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siobhan814
9:34PM Oct 4th 2009
It seems that everybody who has skin in the game thinks we need more troops.After a few more hundred american deaths the whole buisness will be too much Obomatard will have to admit defeat.I wish he would stop playing political games with out troops. Back em up or pack em up..SIMPLE
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Charles Queen
10:01AM Oct 2nd 2009
I to was in nam,7th special forces and I to was subjected to very cruel and unusal punishment by the public when i returned.There is no comparison with nam and Afghanasatn.Nam was trying to keep the commies out.Afghanasatn has to do with hunting terrorists and other insurgents.This was totaly messed up when Obooboo sent in thousands which he promised he would not do if elected.This was better suited for special forces and other black ps which is what Bush was using and the results were very good.When Obama sent in thousands it undid everything that was acomplished.it scattered the taliban and others into the larger citie's makingit virtually impossible to locate them and now they want to send in more.This is a waste of time.We need to pull out of there now and cut our losses while we still can.We cannot win this war.HAd Ford not gone back on the promise Nixon made to the south vietnames when they asked for a second saturation bobmbing with the B-52's when the North was resupplied and was attempting to cross the river into the south again it would have turned out very diferently and the north would have never been able to take over the way they did
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beckjr2000
10:37AM Oct 2nd 2009
I hate to pop your bubble Charle but the 7th SFG operated in Central and South America. The 5th SFG was active is S.E.Asia then.
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wasp1788
12:51PM Oct 2nd 2009
Thanks BECKJR2000! There are a lot of phonies out there who claim combat duty in Vietnam but were never in-country. I am a real combat veteran, 33rd ARS, (GO Pedros) assigned TDY (because Johnson did not want to show the actual numbers in the active duty troop buildup) after B52s started dropping bombs on the North in March of 1965.
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MIKE
2:10PM Oct 5th 2009
I too am a Viet Nam vet and I have no idea what you are referring to about your take on that war. where did you come up with your version? Why do you think the outcome could have been different?
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Jjesse285
7:55AM Oct 6th 2009
We can do both, used black op and ground troops, but the main problem's is getting the Afghanistan and Pakistan to fight, we know that the terr-militant are just outlaw's that need to be hunt down by the main people's that keep then on their land, if we just get the Pakistan to stop making deal behind our back then we can get some of this done.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (-1)
John
11:05AM Oct 2nd 2009
Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it.
Afghanistan ---
Alexander the great tried in the 4th century BC, didn't make it. British tried in the 1800's, didn't make it. Russia in 1979 to 1989, didn't make it.
Are we that superior that WE are going to make it ???????
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dragonemisis
11:42PM Oct 4th 2009
Dear John,
It doesn't matter how many American lives we pour into this conflict, we will fail anyway. The USSR poured everything they had at Afghanistan and dashed their country to bits on the rock that is Afghanistan. The terrain there presents as many problems to a strategist as Vietnam's jungles did. If we wish to finish the job that Bush started of smashing the economy, we will continue this war.
What we need to do is catch Osama Bin Laden and his chain of command, disband the Taliban & get the hell out!
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loucardsfan
11:25AM Oct 2nd 2009
Obama promised to cross the border into the tribal regions of Pakistan to kill Al Quaeda, where we know they are. Why hasnt he done it? Same thing happened in Nam. North agreed Laos and Cambodia were off limits then used them to supply thier army. Quit pussy footing around and go in and kill the enemy and bring our sons home.
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wolfsonnydiane
8:55PM Oct 4th 2009
I agree if were going to fight this like a war then we need to start a draft to get enough man power raise taxes to pay far it and take over factories to make enough equipment in a hurry. are fight this as a covert action using snipers and drones to cut the snakes head off again and again till no more snakes. notice their leaders do not do combat. just hide I suspect their scared to die enough die the smart ones will find some one else to dislike and want to kill. We fought world war 2 by doing the things above and we one . all the rest of our wars have been and are beeing fought on the cheap.
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Master Sixkiller
11:28AM Oct 2nd 2009
Point being is in Vietnam the North was fighting to unify their country and if America had helped Uncle Ho in stead of siding with the French, that war would have never happened. In this resent war the objective is to set a democracy in place but these people of that area first don't want our type of democracy and two we are considered nothing more than crusaders and infidels who back the Zionists in Israel. This seem to me is a war we can not win and can not afford. And one last thing if the countries around Afghanistan decide they don't want us to use their country as a jump off point then how do you intend to resupply let alone if need be get our people out of their.
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jhinds6056
12:00PM Oct 2nd 2009
We could have finished the war in Nam off after TET. We didn't know it but we won. The news media ginned up the anti war sentiment and were dead wrong on the aftermath of TET. Vietnam has nothing to do with Afganistan. It has to do with a naive president getting a job after bashing George Bush with fighting the wrong war. To prove his machismo he is going to fight "The Good War". This from a man that can take time out to fly to Copenhagen and "Oh, by the way McCrystal I can talk to you after snubbing you for six weeks, between photo ops. Any President worth his salt would have flown down there to see for himself." This guy prosecuting a war is about like him running a lemonade stand for profit. Never did it, doesn't understand it.
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Alex Lekas
12:34PM Oct 2nd 2009
while a nice exercise in political navel gazing, Afghanistan is NOT Vietnam. By the time we got into SE Asia, the internal fight between North and South had been blazing for years, plus there was the overarching issue of the Red Spread. Communism was in full bloom; the Soviet bloc was becoming entrenched in Eastern Europe, the Korean War had come and gone, and there was Cuba, with the Castro takeover and the missile crisis.
All were threats to the US in a sense but none was the staging ground for an outright attack. Afghanistan was and the Taliban isn't going to give up simply because we may want to prop up Karzai. At this point, the 'right' answer is difficult but our strategy of waiting in hopes that it will formulate itself does not seem a winner.
This is barely a country. It's more an outback controlled by a series of warlords rather than a united people. By comparison, Iraq looks like a state marching in political lockstep. Where Obama went wrong was campaigning on a theme that implied clarity of the situation and of what he would do if elected. Well now, he has the job and, quite likely, a whole new appreciation of George Bush. It's easy to campaign and TALK about doing things; it is much more difficult to lead and order specific action.
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Lonnie
1:36PM Oct 2nd 2009
The problem with Nam and Afganistan is we are supposed to stop at the border and our enemy dosen't. Pulling out of Iraq dosen't work until Iraq is stable too early and it goes back the way it was short of Saddam. Barrack, with war you are either all in and play to win or don't do it at all. Yes there will be collateral damage and yes you will tick off Packistan but we need to follow the enemy where ever they go and take them out before they grow and mass in force.
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copterdude118
4:19PM Oct 2nd 2009
What kind of revisionist history crap is this article? Our soldiers in Vietnam won battle after battle after battle. The war was lost in Washington, DC. The war was lost because the media turned the Tet Offensive from the victory that is was into a defeat. The war was lost because the politicians in DC, much like Harry "the war is lost" Reid, did not have the political will or the determination to do what had to be done to ensure victory. The war was lost because the liberals of the country succeeded in demonizing our military, while promoting the communist North Vietnam. The only lessons that Vietnam provides for Afghanistan is a defeatist attitude will ensure defeat, and that when fighting a war, we need to fight to win, not with one hand tied behind our back.
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gvpal52
5:10PM Oct 2nd 2009
I was drafted but the war ended right before I had to go. I have never forgotten the nightly news totals of troops, choppers, planes lost every day a new number and they were always balanced by 10 times the enemy killed. I have no real Idea what it was like except for the stories that so many vets have shared with me since than. I do know from there own words "they never lost a battle but were ordered to loose the war buy politicians" and were scorned by the likes of John Kerry and the sick liberals that think they have no blood on there little pink hands. Demoocrats should never be given power in war time, they would rather kill us than finish off our enemies, so what does that make them?
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joedenver60
10:58AM Oct 3rd 2009
I am a nam vet (1968-1970), 101st airborne, 3rd brigade, and I completely agree
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gvpal52
4:58PM Oct 2nd 2009
Great history lesson but when will the black hole of death be left to it's own dysfunction so our troops can get back to stabilizing the better war in Iraq. I say secure the nukes in pakistan cut them a check to do the dirty work and build bases in Iraq. That is foresight not hindsight. To many boots in Afghanistan will result in the same End that the Russians met there. When the Afghans start to feel occupied they will turn on us. There leadership is as crooked as ours and is of little help to even there own committed troops. Get out as fast as you can and support them with Intel and air trikes. They were never a real country anyway.
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daballofire
5:04PM Oct 2nd 2009
No. They did not debate for 3 hours whether to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan or not. They debated for 3 hours the best way to surrender Afghanistan to Osama bin Laden without looking like the surrender monkeys they are. They are just trying to figure out the best way to blame Bush for their surrender. It will probably take these idiots a year how to do it too.