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Fort Hood Shock: A Reader Weighs In
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Politics Daily comment moderators will be "rooting out crassness at their discretion, and cracking down on responses they deem profane, racist, sexist or plain old over-the-top mean."
In other words, we want not censorship of comments, but rather a clearing away of the kind of rhetorical debris that makes spirited discussion and good government so elusive.
Since I've been deputized, I find I enjoy the spam, because it requires no thought. Just hit delete! The comments by actual human beings are more troublesome.
Contrary to popular assumption, we here at Politics Daily are not promoting a left-wing or a right-wing political agenda. You could not even call us centrist, if by centrist you mean watered down.
We are in favor of accurate, factual reporting. We favor strong opinions from the left, right and middle. We do not delete comments lightly.
But no intelligent discussion is advanced by wholesale slandering of one religion, race, ethnicity, political party or another. We ask that comments stick to the topic at hand and back up claims with facts.
You'll go nuts if you try to assign me a political affiliation. As a die-hard iconoclast, I'm all over the map. But here's an example of the kind of comment we like to encourage on Politics Daily.
I may or may not agree, but the commenter, Cooper, makes his case in response to David Wood's post 13 Dead at Ft. Hood: Worst Soldier-on-Soldier Violence in U.S. History.
Lest anyone forget, and it hasn't been mentioned yet that I have noticed, another "American-born Muslim" fragged some of his fellow soldiers not more than a couple of years ago. What ever happened in that case?
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years, and I generally found the native-born Muslims there to be very hospitable people. They were pretty much like American christians in the way that they practiced Islam - it was just what they grew up with, it was part of the culture, and most had probably never really studied the Koran or done any in-depth theological research. I got the feeling that, had their society not dictated it, a lot of Arabs would have skipped the 5 prayers a day and never seen the inside of a mosque. In fact, I saw many of them on vacation in other countries and they "lost their religion" as soon as the plane cleared Saudi airspace.
However, I was then and remain today VERY suspicious of anyone born and raised in the West or living in the West as a resident who continues to practice or subsequently converts to Islam. I've just never met anyone who did that whom I would consider "normal." (I'm not counting the people who "converted" back when the Saudi government actually PAID western contractors to convert - most of those promptly un-converted once they got back home with their cash.) While some of the concepts of Islam jive with christianity, the essential tenets of Islam appear to me totally incompatible with western ideals as embodied in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Agreed, we are not at war with Islam. Agreed, many Muslims are fine people who wouldn't kill you or anyone else. Agreed, there have been plenty of friendly fire casualties at the hands of non-Muslims. Nonetheless, I continue to assert that one cannot legitimately swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States while also claiming to be a faithful Muslim.
As a military recruiter, I would be extremely suspicious of anyone claiming to be a Muslim who wants to join any branch of our military.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years, and I generally found the native-born Muslims there to be very hospitable people. They were pretty much like American christians in the way that they practiced Islam - it was just what they grew up with, it was part of the culture, and most had probably never really studied the Koran or done any in-depth theological research. I got the feeling that, had their society not dictated it, a lot of Arabs would have skipped the 5 prayers a day and never seen the inside of a mosque. In fact, I saw many of them on vacation in other countries and they "lost their religion" as soon as the plane cleared Saudi airspace.
However, I was then and remain today VERY suspicious of anyone born and raised in the West or living in the West as a resident who continues to practice or subsequently converts to Islam. I've just never met anyone who did that whom I would consider "normal." (I'm not counting the people who "converted" back when the Saudi government actually PAID western contractors to convert - most of those promptly un-converted once they got back home with their cash.) While some of the concepts of Islam jive with christianity, the essential tenets of Islam appear to me totally incompatible with western ideals as embodied in our Constitution and Declaration of Independence.
Agreed, we are not at war with Islam. Agreed, many Muslims are fine people who wouldn't kill you or anyone else. Agreed, there have been plenty of friendly fire casualties at the hands of non-Muslims. Nonetheless, I continue to assert that one cannot legitimately swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States while also claiming to be a faithful Muslim.
As a military recruiter, I would be extremely suspicious of anyone claiming to be a Muslim who wants to join any branch of our military.
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Donna Trussell
Donna Trussell is a poet, fiction writer, and former film critic. Her 2008 poetry collection, What’s Right about What’s Wrong, was published by Helicon Nine... more
Comments (68)
garry402
4:07PM Nov 6th 2009
Well, some one is obviously censoring.
RATE THIS COMMENT:
(7)
(7) 
Alwayspissedoff@something
7:04PM Nov 6th 2009
I believe what they are willing to permit is an ingredients list of an egg. No feelings or pashion or polish. Just drivel. Monotone blathered expulsions of type. That's not how people converse. Maybe in Pravada possibly.....
RATE THIS COMMENT: (4)
(4) Truth
7:33PM Nov 6th 2009
Donna,
I posted a comment criticizing this policy in no uncertain terms, and was censored, even though there were no violations of this new policy. The ultra vague "over-the-top-mean" was apparently the only category subjective enough to be twisted into justification for censoring my comments. As far as I am concerned it was done in more of a retaliatory spirit than anything else.
You can use euphemisms like "moderator", if that makes you feel better about your censorship, but it doesn't change the truth of what you're doing. Come to think of it, the crime syndicates call their hired murderers hitmen. They refer to a murder as liquidating, whacking, or any number of other colorful names. It's still murder, and what you are doing is still censorship.
You also have the immediate problem of disparity, whether justified or not, between the right and left leaning posters. I have become acutely aware of certain notorious PD liberals who do nothing but make sexist, mean, unsupported comments, and they haven't been getting zapped.
I find this whole thing to be the height of hypocrisy. The overwheming majority of PD writers are liberal, and liberals have fought for years to relax censorship of language and content on TV, radio, etc.. The same people attack Christians for their moral beliefs, especially when it comes to sexual behavior and abortion. Now the liberal biased PD is going to ride herd on naughty words and politically incorrect opinions. It is laughable.
I'd respect the whole thing more if you be honest about it. Call a censor a censor. Admit you're suppressing free speech. And as for the nebulous "mean" category, forget it, or you will have 75% less readers.
Vague rules are the tools of tyrants. There's too much room for creative rationalization.
I posted a comment criticizing this policy in no uncertain terms, and was censored, even though there were no violations of this new policy. The ultra vague "over-the-top-mean" was apparently the only category subjective enough to be twisted into justification for censoring my comments. As far as I am concerned it was done in more of a retaliatory spirit than anything else.
You can use euphemisms like "moderator", if that makes you feel better about your censorship, but it doesn't change the truth of what you're doing. Come to think of it, the crime syndicates call their hired murderers hitmen. They refer to a murder as liquidating, whacking, or any number of other colorful names. It's still murder, and what you are doing is still censorship.
You also have the immediate problem of disparity, whether justified or not, between the right and left leaning posters. I have become acutely aware of certain notorious PD liberals who do nothing but make sexist, mean, unsupported comments, and they haven't been getting zapped.
I find this whole thing to be the height of hypocrisy. The overwheming majority of PD writers are liberal, and liberals have fought for years to relax censorship of language and content on TV, radio, etc.. The same people attack Christians for their moral beliefs, especially when it comes to sexual behavior and abortion. Now the liberal biased PD is going to ride herd on naughty words and politically incorrect opinions. It is laughable.
I'd respect the whole thing more if you be honest about it. Call a censor a censor. Admit you're suppressing free speech. And as for the nebulous "mean" category, forget it, or you will have 75% less readers.
Vague rules are the tools of tyrants. There's too much room for creative rationalization.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (13)
(13) baildorf
4:21PM Nov 6th 2009
So you believe yourself to be the protector of all this is good, and will censor anything you found offensive?
Now we see you are not for freedom of speech, freedom of dissent, and the right the Constitution gives us all to join in the discussion? Shame on you, how awful to think you have the ability or the right to determine how people should speak.
People express themselves in different ways, and not everyone speaks like a Harvard grad. Everyone in America gets a voice, not just the ones who use the words you want to hear.
You marginalize yourself in this move to the PC left. Just shut up and let people say what they want. If you don't like it, thank the First Amendment.
Now we see you are not for freedom of speech, freedom of dissent, and the right the Constitution gives us all to join in the discussion? Shame on you, how awful to think you have the ability or the right to determine how people should speak.
People express themselves in different ways, and not everyone speaks like a Harvard grad. Everyone in America gets a voice, not just the ones who use the words you want to hear.
You marginalize yourself in this move to the PC left. Just shut up and let people say what they want. If you don't like it, thank the First Amendment.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (10)
(10) copterdude118
4:48PM Nov 6th 2009
I agree we would have much better debate without the name calling and insulting people's mother. A few quick lines to share your opinion and a few more to explain why and maybe some actual facts to challenge the opinion of others is all that is needed. And please don't compare Clinton, Bush, Cheney, or Obama to Hitler. There is no comparison.
RATE THIS COMMENT:
(1)
(1) garry402
5:05PM Nov 6th 2009
You get a letter? Mine just get deleted for no rhyme or reason.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (6)
(6) bonbon
5:08PM Nov 6th 2009
sorry Ms Trussell
but as I said yesterday, censorship, is censorship and is illegal.
and the comments that we have repeatedly seen deleted here, seem to always be those opposed to this administration.
like it or not, it is not the English, the French, the Germans, the Austrailians, or most other nations who want to "kill Americans" the only one's I hear screaming this are muslims, radical muslims yes, but still muslins. who are we fighting against in Iraq, Afghanistan, and possible in Pakistan, we are fighting Muslims.
9/11 was not committed by Swiss terrorist. our enemy like it or not are muslim radicals.
that is a truth.
and I have never said all Muslims are bad people, but this is my homeland, and I see who the enemy is, and like it or not I have a right to my opinion.
and yesterday my post was deleted several times, because I said I knew the Ft. Hood gunman was a Muslim, and he was. and I said it only after it had been confirmed.
and that we are asking for this kind of thing, to happen, by being just a little to tolerant.
and that we were damn lucky he did not have a bomb strapped to his body.
now come on I said nothing wrong.
I did not call anyone a name, nor rant and rave, I merely made a statement,
that does not give you the right to decide what is good or bad.
plus they had fun moving post around to make anyone who opposes this adminstration to look foolish.
This is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
not Nazi Germany.
there are post that a lot of us don't like.
but we just ignore them.
answer me no us this.
why do any of you write stories for PD, to get comments, right. then when you get comments you don't agree with, you get mad.
you cannot have it both ways.
I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN AND ENTITLED TO MY OPINION, AS YOU ARE YOURS.
I may not agtree with others, but I damn well will stand up and defend their rights to say it.
I really do understand some comments are just mean, racist rants.
REMEMBER Hitler took away freedom of speech, as he took away right, after right, and when he had taken away their guns, their freedoms, he them just took lives.
you are walking a thin line here.
make sure you don't cross it.
but as I said yesterday, censorship, is censorship and is illegal.
and the comments that we have repeatedly seen deleted here, seem to always be those opposed to this administration.
like it or not, it is not the English, the French, the Germans, the Austrailians, or most other nations who want to "kill Americans" the only one's I hear screaming this are muslims, radical muslims yes, but still muslins. who are we fighting against in Iraq, Afghanistan, and possible in Pakistan, we are fighting Muslims.
9/11 was not committed by Swiss terrorist. our enemy like it or not are muslim radicals.
that is a truth.
and I have never said all Muslims are bad people, but this is my homeland, and I see who the enemy is, and like it or not I have a right to my opinion.
and yesterday my post was deleted several times, because I said I knew the Ft. Hood gunman was a Muslim, and he was. and I said it only after it had been confirmed.
and that we are asking for this kind of thing, to happen, by being just a little to tolerant.
and that we were damn lucky he did not have a bomb strapped to his body.
now come on I said nothing wrong.
I did not call anyone a name, nor rant and rave, I merely made a statement,
that does not give you the right to decide what is good or bad.
plus they had fun moving post around to make anyone who opposes this adminstration to look foolish.
This is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
not Nazi Germany.
there are post that a lot of us don't like.
but we just ignore them.
answer me no us this.
why do any of you write stories for PD, to get comments, right. then when you get comments you don't agree with, you get mad.
you cannot have it both ways.
I am an AMERICAN CITIZEN AND ENTITLED TO MY OPINION, AS YOU ARE YOURS.
I may not agtree with others, but I damn well will stand up and defend their rights to say it.
I really do understand some comments are just mean, racist rants.
REMEMBER Hitler took away freedom of speech, as he took away right, after right, and when he had taken away their guns, their freedoms, he them just took lives.
you are walking a thin line here.
make sure you don't cross it.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (20)
(20) bonbon
1:26AM Nov 7th 2009
see I got to close to the truth.
didn't I
didn't I
RATE THIS COMMENT:
(2)
(2) bonbon
5:12PM Nov 6th 2009
All I got was deleted.
I will check my email and see. brb
I will check my email and see. brb
RATE THIS COMMENT: (4)
(4) daballofire
5:15PM Nov 6th 2009
Only left wing Marxists, who are anti free speech to the core, would ever think about censoring non profane comments of others - despite any all claims otherwise and attempts to make themsleves seem normal and sane to those who know when their free speech rights are being threatened by totalitarian thought police from the left.
Nice try but lefty thought control freaks only lie when their lips are moving. Do not believe these lies and watch what they do instead. If they delete one non profane comment then they are whack job Marxists, anti Americans who need to be watched very closely to make sure they never ever gain any control over your thoughts, speech and ideas - not ever.
Nice try but lefty thought control freaks only lie when their lips are moving. Do not believe these lies and watch what they do instead. If they delete one non profane comment then they are whack job Marxists, anti Americans who need to be watched very closely to make sure they never ever gain any control over your thoughts, speech and ideas - not ever.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (8)
(8) bonbon
5:16PM Nov 6th 2009
nope nothing,
Luette you must be extra special
Luette you must be extra special
RATE THIS COMMENT: (2)
(2) garry402
5:19PM Nov 6th 2009
I saw your video. Put together like that, wow!
RATE THIS COMMENT:
(3)
(3) garry402
5:22PM Nov 6th 2009
That comment was intended for Luette
RATE THIS COMMENT: (1)
(1) matthewsage
5:36PM Nov 6th 2009
Why is it that people bring up "illegal censorship" in connection with moderating internet sites, such as the comments on this site?
Censorship is not illegal. It is perfectly reasonable and normal for any organization (with the exception of one that I will get to) to censor what is said or displayed on their property, website, or whatever. You cannot go into a Catholic church and yell profanities about their religion without being censored and thrown out.
There is only one illegal form of censorship in the United States, and that is government censorship. Our freedom of speech is only freedom from government imposed restrictions. Not Wal-mart or ACLU imposed restrictions.
This site is not the government, they can censor just fine.
Censorship is not illegal. It is perfectly reasonable and normal for any organization (with the exception of one that I will get to) to censor what is said or displayed on their property, website, or whatever. You cannot go into a Catholic church and yell profanities about their religion without being censored and thrown out.
There is only one illegal form of censorship in the United States, and that is government censorship. Our freedom of speech is only freedom from government imposed restrictions. Not Wal-mart or ACLU imposed restrictions.
This site is not the government, they can censor just fine.
RATE THIS COMMENT:
(0)
(0) swtpea3098
2:56AM Nov 7th 2009
matthewsage
5:36PM Nov 6th 2009
YOU WROTE: "Why is it that people bring up "illegal censorship" in connection with moderating internet sites, such as the comments on this site?
Censorship is not illegal. It is perfectly reasonable and normal for any organization (with the exception of one that I will get to) to censor what is said or displayed on their property, website, or whatever. You cannot go into a Catholic church and yell profanities about their religion without being censored and thrown out.
There is only one illegal form of censorship in the United States, and that is government censorship. Our freedom of speech is only freedom from government imposed restrictions. Not Wal-mart or ACLU imposed restrictions.
This site is not the government, they can censor just fine."
ARE YOU STATING THIS SITE IS PRIVATELY OWNED AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE REGULATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT? Please be clear.
5:36PM Nov 6th 2009
YOU WROTE: "Why is it that people bring up "illegal censorship" in connection with moderating internet sites, such as the comments on this site?
Censorship is not illegal. It is perfectly reasonable and normal for any organization (with the exception of one that I will get to) to censor what is said or displayed on their property, website, or whatever. You cannot go into a Catholic church and yell profanities about their religion without being censored and thrown out.
There is only one illegal form of censorship in the United States, and that is government censorship. Our freedom of speech is only freedom from government imposed restrictions. Not Wal-mart or ACLU imposed restrictions.
This site is not the government, they can censor just fine."
ARE YOU STATING THIS SITE IS PRIVATELY OWNED AND IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE REGULATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT? Please be clear.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (-1)
(-1) Charles Queen
5:29PM Nov 6th 2009
I'v yet to read the whole article but was listening to it the day it happened.If he was using a military weapon which I'm assuming he did how did he get ahold of the live ammo for it to begin with?Thas suppose to be tightly controlled and not handed out even to those being deployed until they get to the battle site or sites.I also heard there were 2 other acomplises in this which i also figure they to were military.as fro being muslim that may have had something to do with it.It is the fault of the governnment for lightening up the standras and allowing anybody to join up.Tye need to reinstate the the more stringent requirementts for those who want to sign up.As for the live ammo you had best believe that one or more will also go down for it to be able to be gotten to
RATE THIS COMMENT: (1)
(1) el burpo
5:49PM Nov 6th 2009
AOL went down this road a couple of times in the past. It didn't work then and it won't work now.
Those of you who think this is a wonderful idea, remember that thought the first time one of your posts gets pulled and you are either offered no explanation or the one you are offered doesn't seem to apply.
To the "moderators" - good luck. You've signed on to a thankless task. I give each one of you about 90 days before you decide it ain't worth the grief.
As for the folks at PD, if you're at all responsible for maintaining a certain eyeball count to remain feasible, you've just made that portion of your job a lot harder.
This is not a good thing. I know, because I've done it. Right here on AOL.
Those of you who think this is a wonderful idea, remember that thought the first time one of your posts gets pulled and you are either offered no explanation or the one you are offered doesn't seem to apply.
To the "moderators" - good luck. You've signed on to a thankless task. I give each one of you about 90 days before you decide it ain't worth the grief.
As for the folks at PD, if you're at all responsible for maintaining a certain eyeball count to remain feasible, you've just made that portion of your job a lot harder.
This is not a good thing. I know, because I've done it. Right here on AOL.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (2)
(2) researcher13th
6:11PM Nov 6th 2009
Oh, so my "women are terrorists" comment at another section is probably a no-go. Sorry. I meant to say "some women are terrorists, and the ones that are can see what it is like to clean my trailer floor." My bad. heheh
RATE THIS COMMENT: (0)
(0) KATWOMAN
6:55PM Nov 6th 2009
For some reason the first word that comes to mind is....sleeper. The only word I could come up w/ when I first heard about this yesterday. That AND MY OLDEST SON is in the 1st Cav who is a sniper in the Army whose base is Ft Hood, so needless to say this mom was quite ticked off. Almost sad to think my son is safer serving this country in Iraq than in his own country where we 'employ' folks like this Hasan guy. Did anyone forget about the 9-11 incident where companies in the US taught the attackers to fly the planes? Wonder just how aware everyone is that there are those in Iraq on the 'other side' get ticked off & decide to turn good, turn against their own country for the better so they team up w/ the US, whom the US arms them. You folks know that each family in Iraq is allowed to own a weapon & 1 clip, if caught w/ more, they're taken away??? What kind of war is this that we go there for multiple years and arm the citizens of the ones we're supposed to be at war with? C'mon folks...it's way past time to wake up & smell the coffee. This country has gone to hell in a handbasket all over those who have this crazy fascination with living in a fantasy land. Luckily my son who has served 3 1/2 yrs and was SUPPOSED TO BE home in Dec/Jan, re-enlisted for another 6 yrs, wasn't home early on leave. Don't complain of my comments unless you have something to say that would help get this country back to the shape that is should be as I'm actually being quite nice here and leaving alot of what I really want to say out of it. I'll leave this topic alone whlie I'm ahead. All I can say is I'm very proud of my oldest of two sons, my youngest is 18 and also wanting to serve....so what if he's 18 I refuse to let him right now & will continuously fight it. My son is fighting for you...what is your son doing? I see the list and photos of the victims are out...around the ages of my son who sometimes calls Ft Hood his home.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (14)
(14) john perry
7:01PM Nov 6th 2009
Our Warriors were not killed by A Muslim Jihadist,a sick Muslim or a stressed out Soldier.
THEY WERE KILLED BY LIBERAL DEMOCRAT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMUCK THAT DID NOT ALLOW AN INVESTIGATION OF THIS MAN.
THE BLOOD OF THESE POOR INNOCENT PEOPLE IS NO THE HANDS OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.
THEY WERE KILLED BY LIBERAL DEMOCRAT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS RUN AMUCK THAT DID NOT ALLOW AN INVESTIGATION OF THIS MAN.
THE BLOOD OF THESE POOR INNOCENT PEOPLE IS NO THE HANDS OF OBAMA AND THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.
RATE THIS COMMENT: (1)
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